Interview: Johnny Lydon

Sex, butter & rock ’n’ roll

One of the most charismatic personalities of the modern rock age, Johnny Lydon refuses to slow down, as he explains to Jeff Hemmings
It was 37 years ago that the Sex Pistols burst into the public conscience, quickly achieving fame and notoriety, as the leaders of the punk movement, a genre of music that blew away the cobwebs of excess; a fossilised rockocracy and rampant narcissism that was polluting the airwaves. With svengali manager Malcolm McLaren at the helm, a series of sensational stunts (for instance, releasing ‘God Save The Queen’ during the week of the Queen’s Silver Jubilee), tabloid outrage and the release of the all-time classic Never Mind The Bollocks album, the band cemented their place in history.

It didn’t, perhaps thankfully, last long… By 1978 Lydon had formed Public Image Limited, releasing the equally seminal Metal Box (aka Second Edition) album in 1979 and a number of hits including ‘Public Image’, ‘This Is Not A Love Song’ and ‘Rise’.

“False accusations, which have been the bane of my life… such is the price of infamy…”

He’s been living in Los Angeles for many years now and it’s from there he spoke to me over the phone: “La la – that’s what we call it. I like it, it’s indifferently big, sprawled all over the place with no real centre.”
Always seemingly at odds with his country of birth, Lydon explains his move to America: “I’ve been here as many years as police harassment memories are still in my head. It was too much, I couldn’t do anything without being suspected of God knows what… False accusations, which have been the bane of my life ever since, such is the price of infamy.”

But he sounds like he is struggling to cope with the post-crash environment in America.

“America is trying to give itself new wings, the crippling traditionalists are trying to drag it back into the past with a violence and a nastiness that I have not seen for some time. It really is like the Salem Witch Trials versus modern technology. It is dismally bad, wider and wider and wider divides, and fuelled very indiscreetly by racism. That is how the right wing is perpetrating its policies. It’s so threatening to civilisation; they are all hand-on-bibles, frightened of ghosts and 78 per cent believe in UFOs. What can you do?!

“They aren’t handling it well at the moment – it’s panicking. The one thing we know – we’ve seen all the John Wayne movies – what does an American do when he panics!? He blows everything up! It’s just their way!”

On the surface a contrarian, Lydon can be a difficult subject to interpret… Behind the bluster and soundbites there’s a deeply thoughtful man, whose ideas and actions often run counter to mainstream thinking. He says what he thinks, with the inevitable result that controversy often courts him. And he likes to talk… granting much more time than is customary to interviewees.

On the subject of China where he recently visited for the first time: “Fascinating, made loads of new family there… I loved the place, I loved the people; their openness, good humoured, language no barrier. You could tell by the eyes they mean you well, you could share little scenarios even on the street. Very different from what I was expecting. The people who have to deal with the harshest of realities tend to be the most fun loving and giving. I know that as a working class, fully paid up member!

“They are all very eager to tell me the people they most resented were people like Bjork, Mark Knopfler and Coldplay, because of their political yackings, it’s done them a lot of damage. They are trying to set up a music industry which is free of government control; that’s a very difficult thing to be taking on, and they almost got away with it until Bjork started yacking at the end of every gig saying ‘Free Tibet!’. That invited the Government in, many went to jail, many lost their jobs and so it was broken down. They don’t properly investigate what they are yacking on about!

“I wont let student union bodies dictate what should or shouldn’t be my political involvement. For me politics is a personal issue. I don’t make no man, woman or child my enemy. For me, I’m John: no government, no single one of those politicians, are my friends.”

As part of a short UK tour he’ll be taking in Glastonbury as a performer for the very first time. “I’m glad they opened up to us; we dropped more than a few hints! There are a still a lot of those major festivals and promoters that won’t help us out at all. I think I have contributed to the modern world of music, in more ways than many. A bit of a thank you and a bit of time on stage would be the order of the day, out of respect… But no, these are all f****** that are trying to bury me in a very shallow grave, and I’ve still got a pulse!”

Until last year’s This is PiL album, Lydon hadn’t released anything new for 15 years… “It’s thanks to corporate record labels that know how to destroy a man’s life. It was the financial constraints that I was shackled under. I had to go outside of music to raise enough to at least make a dent in their recoupment figures. And thanks to butter, I was able to halfway buy my way out, and so we formed our own label, where we don’t have to deal with that kind of contaminating suppression ever again. I used to enjoy working on labels because the staff were great, a lot of serious friends, but things go into what they call the accounting department, and that is a black hole…

“Distribution [of music] is the temptress. Now there are no record stores, it’s a different vagina! No doubt this will be misunderstood and lo and behold, I am a misogynist! Such is the silliness we live in. Oh well, I come from a vagina, I’m quite happy!”

As for subject matter there’s plenty of material out there for him to mull over… “I’m not being spiteful, or vindictive, but its soul searching. I’m trying to find the clues to human emotions, why we have them, what they mean, and are they worthy to vent your spleen on. Some of them are! The seven deadly sins are always fascinating, but virtues too. Most of our songwriting is done in conversation, because we get on so well with each other, we’re real friends, and so what would seen as offbeat, irregular conversations, are actually feeding into the agenda – they are all about experiences, and everyone’s feeling and emotions about situations.

“And as for the Sex Pistols?The Sex Pistols is finished! It’s best to leave well alone, we could be friends if we’re not working, and we can’t be friends if we were. I’d rather they were friends. It’s done its thing, it’s stood the test of time, best to leave alone now. I can’t write new songs for them. Any songs I have are always instinctively for PiL.”

PiL, Thursday 27 June, Concert Hall, Brighton Dome, www.brightondome.org